The Mortal Effect

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The Mortal Effect

Postby Tim-Director » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:30 pm

Page 17 of the Rulebook has just been edited to show:

"Mortal
Target is affected by Curse and Slow and begins to Bleed Out, but BP is not affected. Target should role-play the mortal wound. Any healing or First Aid that restores BP removes the Mortal effect."


To clarify, this means you can still use weapons and items in a limited capacity, per Slow. You can end the Mortal Effect with any healing, including self-administered First Aid.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Lance LeFleur » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:01 pm

If one is first aiding themselves and they are struck with a sword blow does this knock the starting count back to zero?
IE ive been hit with mortal , i begin first aid , i need to get to a 10 count to reset my count. If im at say a 7 count and then i get struck with a sword , do i proceed 8, 9 ,10 reset my count or do i have to do 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 reset my count?
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Merry » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:41 pm

When your 60 second standing bleed out is up, you fall to 0 BP correct?
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Mordecai » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:46 pm

First Aid, Basic
Cost: 3 SP
Basic First Aid represents emergency healing of a character by mundane means. To use First Aid you touch the torso of a Bleeding Out target and audibly state, "First Aid: Stop your count." After touching the torso for ten continuous seconds, audibly state, "First Aid: Reset your count". After touching their torso continuously for another fifty seconds (for a total of sixty seconds), you then audibly state, "You're stable”. The character will receive 1 point of healing, and will regain consciousness, if applicable. With a willing or unconscious subject, First Aid can also determine the BP and/or health ailments that a subject has, by asking OOG, "First Aid: What is your status?"


Nothing indicates the count is broken or reset if you are attacked and keep performing First Aid on yourself. If you are attacked and start fighting back, then you've stopped performing First Aid (I don't imagine it being legal to both fight and perform First Aid at the same time), so your count would be broken (if broken before 10 seconds had passed, continue counting where you left off at; otherwise, count starts at 1). The only mechanic I could find where being struck causes a count to break is in the section "The Killing Blow", which outlines delivery mechanics. I honestly thought there were more fleshed out mechanics regarding being struck during a count, must be thinking of either the older rules or another game, or I just can't find it in the rulebook.

When your 60 second standing bleed out is up, you fall to 0 BP correct?


Yep. 0BP and Bled Out (i.e. Dead).
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Tim-Director » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:56 pm

Made a change. Sorry about that.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Tim-Director » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:39 pm

Clarified in the definition of First Aid: "continuous" is now "uninterrupted."

Clearly, if you're hit doing First Aid, you have to start over. That's the spirit of the rules.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Lance LeFleur » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:09 pm

Thank you for the edit i assumed that it would have to be uninterrupted because that makes sense.

I have another question about item usage and slow . the slow effect currently reduces the speed of weapon strikes and steps taken but does it also effect how quickly you can use an item? IE if i get hit with mortal and i have a potion in my satchel can i rifle through it and quickly ingest the potion or do i have to rp slowness when retrieving and using the item?

I would imagine it would be the latter and rp slow would be needed .
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Mordecai » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:32 pm

Slow
Target is slowed and must take three seconds between attacks, three seconds between active defenses, and two seconds between every step taken.


There is no RP Slowness within the Slow effect. Based on the effect description, I do not think the use of healing potions is hindered, since it's neither an attack nor an active defense. That said, if an item gives you the ability to perform an attack or use an active defense, I would think that should be restricted. For example, if you have a sword that allows you to do two Power Strikes, or a handful of Alchemical Fire gases, you must spend three seconds between each attack. If you have a magic item that gives you two Parrys, if you activate one, you must wait three seconds before activating it again.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Tim-Director » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm

Mordecai wrote:
Slow
Target is slowed and must take three seconds between attacks, three seconds between active defenses, and two seconds between every step taken.


There is no RP Slowness within the Slow effect. Based on the effect description, I do not think the use of healing potions is hindered, since it's neither an attack nor an active defense. That said, if an item gives you the ability to perform an attack or use an active defense, I would think that should be restricted. For example, if you have a sword that allows you to do two Power Strikes, or a handful of Alchemical Fire gases, you must spend three seconds between each attack. If you have a magic item that gives you two Parrys, if you activate one, you must wait three seconds before activating it again.


Mike is right.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Lance LeFleur » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:21 pm

I don't think it makes sense that if I'm slowed that I'm slowed for taking steps and for swinging a weapon but can just franticly rifle through my satchel at maximum speed and quickly heal myself
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Solapse » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Lance LeFleur wrote:I don't think it makes sense that if I'm slowed that I'm slowed for taking steps and for swinging a weapon but can just franticly rifle through my satchel at maximum speed and quickly heal myself


I have to agree with Graham here. If you are going to have an RP vision guiding this effect, it needs to be consistent. You can't really say people can't move quick enough to defend themselves but at the same time can instantly find a potion and use it (At least require people to physically perform the act of digging out the potion and putting it to their lips, which you should be doing anyway RIGHT?). I really don't see the rule changes thus far to Mortal doing anything but adding yet another layer of complexity and opening up more rules-lawyering/interpretation issues. The problem isn't really about what Mortal does. It's how stupid accessible it is.

Once again I'll directly address what Eric's stated was his conceptual basis of Mortal as a weaker version of Fatal. The issue is that it actually isn't as weak as you originally theorycrafted. In actual play it's turned out to be effectively the same thing. It just happens to make the victim defenseless for up to 60 seconds before being promptly beat to death or bleeding out. In fact, it is just a hair away from being as useful as Fatal. Considering the low SP investment and AP cost, it's not even worth it for Brute fighters to skill into Fatal Strike at all anymore unless you just really got a thing for spending your SP and calling "FATAL" instead of "MORTAL" (which I can understand as someone who plays a purposely niche character, but not if the overall game balance suffers as a result). The best way to fix this would be to stop trying to treat the symptoms and fix the overarching problem that it's just way too easy for melee fighters to get such a powerful skill. Move Mortal Strike up to where Fatal Strike and move Fatal Strike to black book or some master-level whitebook skill-tier. Alternatively, just literally remove it from the Brute Force header entirely and just have Mortal Strike as the Brute Force version of a 1-hit kill (I personally like the latter the best as it creates a meaningful distinction between Brute & Finesse fighters).

These are just my ideas. Maybe there are better ones. But, until the core balance issue here is addressed or Mortal is nerfed into the ground as an effect (which would be sad), I feel this will remain an ongoing source of issues.

tl;dr: Tweaking the effects won't solve the issue. People won't have as much of a problem with the skill if it wasn't so ungodly easy for anyone to learn and use. And I'll leave it at that from me.~~
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Drimm » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:29 am

Reading what Ed wrote gave me an idea. Make it cost 1 more AP and move it up to advanced Strength. Make it the prerequisite for Death and move Fatal Strike over to Finesse. Make Precision Strike the prerequisite for Fatal. You wouldn't have to change the effect at all that way. It's a little more shuffling around, but now it gives you a powerful kill effect in two headers and they are balanced by the fact that Fatal is slightly more powerful, but Mortal takes you up to Death. Just an idea.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Drimm » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:33 am

Also, you can now make Last Resort reduce Death to Mortal and now that skill is super worthwhile.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Erykahn » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:22 pm

To respond to what Delo said:

Delo, I do understand what you're saying. But...
If you move fatal strike to finesse and make precision strike the prerequisite. Then, what happens to backstab? Is fatal strike the prerequisite for backstab? Also, if by moving fatal strike, do the people like... myself and Ed, going to get screw cause we don't have Fatal strike? We have backstab. Unless, we get fatal, due to, already having precision strike and backstab.
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Re: The Mortal Effect

Postby Solapse » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:50 pm

Erykahn wrote:To respond to what Delo said:

Delo, I do understand what you're saying. But...
If you move fatal strike to finesse and make precision strike the prerequisite. Then, what happens to backstab? Is fatal strike the prerequisite for backstab? Also, if by moving fatal strike, do the people like... myself and Ed, going to get screw cause we don't have Fatal strike? We have backstab. Unless, we get fatal, due to, already having precision strike and backstab.



Backstab is it's own thing that I don't see as relevant as it falls within the realm of attacks that require surprise. The Finesse Header condenses a lot of character build archetypes, and Backstab is lower on the Finesse tiers as it's a reasonably difficult skill to use without building & RPing around it and also a bread & butter skill for most rogue-types. Meanwhile, if someone wanted to play a skilled swordsman, pretty much all the skills associated that are in Finesse. All of the skills except the apex ability of being so skilled they can fell someone in one precise strike. That is currently at the top of the Brute Force header. If you think about it like this, I guess stuff like Precision Strike and other Finesse skills do make more sense as prereqs for Fatal Strike than Mortal Strike. Remember though, the only reason that we are even bringing up Fatal Strike and where it is in the skillbook is because of how powerful Mortal Strike is, sitting in the first tier of Brute Force as a prereq right under it.
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